Monday, September 01, 2008

Who's the real Hindu? by : Karan Thapar , Hindustan Times August 30, 2008

 
Does the VHP have the right to speak for you or I?   Do they reflect
our views?   Do we endorse their behaviour?   They call themselves the
Vishwa Hindu Parishad, but who says they represent all of us?   This
Sunday morning, I want to draw a clear line of distinction between
them and everyone else.   My hunch is many of you will agree.
 
Let me start with the question of conversion -  an issue that greatly
exercises the VHP.   I imagine there are hundreds of millions of
Hindus who are peaceful, tolerant, devoted to their faith, but above
all, happy to live alongside Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists,
Jains and Jews.   If any one of us were to change our faith how does
it affect the next man or woman?   And even if that happens with
inducements, it can only prove that the forsaken faith had a tenuous
and shallow hold.   So why do the VHP and its unruly storm troopers,
the Bajrang Dal, froth at the mouth if you, I or our neighbours
convert?   What is it to do with them?   Let me put it bluntly, even
crudely.   If I want to sell my soul   and trade in my present gods
for a new lot,  why shouldn' t I?   Even if the act diminishes me in
your eyes, it's my right to do so.   So if thousands or even millions
of Dalits, who have been despised and ostracised for generations,
choose to become Christian, Buddhist or Muslim, either to escape the
discrimination of their Hindu faith or because some other has lured
them with food and cash, it' s their right.   Arguably you may believe
you should ask them to reconsider, although I would call that
interference, but you certainly have no duty or right to stop them.
In fact, I doubt if you are morally correct in even seeking to place
obstacles in their way.   The so-called Freedom of Religion Acts,
which aim to do just that, are, in fact, tantamount to obstruction
of conversion laws and therefore, at the very least, questionable.
 
However, what' s even worse is how the VHP responds to this matter.
Periodically they resort to violence including outright murder.   What
happened to Graham Staines in Orissa was not unique.   Last week it
happened again.   Apart from the utter and contemptible criminality of
such behaviour, is this how we Hindus wish to behave?   Is this how we
want our faith defended?   Is this how we want to be seen?   I have no
doubt the answer is no.   An unequivocal, unchanging and ever-lasting
NO!
 
The only problem is it can' t be heard.   And it needs to be.   I
therefore believe the time has come for the silent majority of
Hindus ?   both those who ardently practice their faith as well as
those who were born into it but may not be overtly religious or
devout ?   to speak out.   We cannot accept the desecration of churches,
the burning to death of innocent caretakers of orphanages, the
storming of Christian and Muslim hamlets even if these acts are
allegedly done in defence of our faith.   Indeed, they do not defend
but shame Hinduism.   That' s my central point. I' m sorry but when I
read that the VHP has ransacked and killed I' m not just
embarrassed, I feel ashamed.   Never of being hindu but of what some
Hindus do in our shared faith' s name.
 
This is why its incumbent on Naveen Patnaik, Orissa' s Chief
Minister, to take tough, unremitting action against the VHP and its
junior wing, the Bajrang Dal.   This is a test not just of his
governance, but of his character.   And I know and accept this could
affect his political survival.   But when it' s a struggle between
your commitment to your principles and your political convenience is
there room for choice?   For ordinary politicians, possibly, but for
the Naveen I know, very definitely not.
 
So let me end by saying:  I' m waiting, Naveen.   In fact, I want to
say I' m not alone.   There are hundreds of millions of Hindus, like
you and me, waiting silently ? but increasingly impatiently. Please
act for all of us.
 

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

There is no use waiting. Naveen, the BJP and VHP and company planned the killings.
Do you really expect the murderers to come forward and confess their sins.

I work in the US in IT. I've seen their funding sources and the hatred and viciousness with which they attack anyone with a different perspective even here in the US. The hindus working in the US are the most vicious and fund these killers in India.

This is the new India.. I've left it a while ago and am quite happy with my decision. The country of my birth is no longer the country I long for. It's a abomination, a fascist hindu nation with which I have nothing in common anymore.

Anonymous said...

Edit: Do you really expect the murderers to come forward and confess their sins.
should read:
Do you really expect the murderers to come forward and confess their crimes.. how very naive of you. They are out celebrating. And so are the ones (hindus) who fund the VHP and company from the US.

Anonymous said...

Thank You Karan, My community and I expected nothing less from our friends like you. The fanatics have no Faith, no rhyme or reason is needed to kill the way they have done..Did Rajani Majhi kill the revered Swami? Did she who lived as a Hindu in a Christian Ashram convert other Hindus? The superior of this ashram Fr. Edward Sequiera who escaped burnt and fractured( thanks to a Commodore brother in the Navy) after being locked up in the burning orphanage shed bitter tears at the loss of this lively capable 'daughter', who could one day be a beacon of hope to her community. Thousands like me attended the press conference and heard Fr. Sequiera's live teatimony in a Mumbai hospital where he is recuperating.Did Rajani expect one of her own co-religionists to burn her alive, for caring for 22 poor Adivasi kids like herself?! Shocking but true!I am glad I belong to India, the motherland of people like you!

Anonymous said...

Karan... Thank you for your post... We need more people to speak out on behalf of the silent majority and restore our faith in India...

गणेश सामंत said...

Mr. Thapar's comments are double standard at some places. He says that "Arguably you may believe
you should ask them to reconsider, although I would call that
interference,". Do you want to say that a mere dialog to reconsider is intrusion ? On the same lines, isn't it an intrusion, when a missionary 'suggests' conversion ? Can you decide how a person should react on any such 'intrusion' ?

Violence is bad, however, Why Mr. thapar is not looking at the root cause ? Aren't missionaries instigating violence, by conversion ? Can't we ask missionaries stop conversion activities to stop the religious violence in the first place ? Isn't it true that a part of the blame rests on those ? I do not understand what makes a Hindu religious leader suspicious and a christian missionary sacrosanct.

As an atheist, I believe this double standard is doing more harm than good. What we should expect is religion bashing. Denounce VHP, RSS , and at the same time denounce the missionaries or any religious activist for that matter.

Anonymous said...

Thank you Karan for your article. Following is a letter sent from Europe to people in high places in India on the horrendous violence in Orissa; but first may I point out a small error - you can't say: "the right to speak for you and I". It must be "you and me".

Malaga, Spain September 12th, 2008

LifePress: Very serious concerns!
lifepress1@aol.com

Dear Madam/Sir,
From the country of Spain we want to share with you our very deep concern about what is becoming a common occurrence in more and more Indian states: violent mobs setting upon those who profess a simple faith in Jesus Christ, the Saviour of sinners.
We are deeply concerned about the most recent happenings in your beloved country, certainly about the Bihar disaster, but particularly about the Orissa disaster. It would seem that your own news services are hushing up the horrific reports coming out of Orissa. However, all over the world Christians are finding out and the effect is profound shock. How could such unprecedented violence happen in a nation that projects itself as peaceful, civilised and democratic?
The flooding tragedy of Bihar is getting attention and help. May it be wonderfully effective! The tragedy of Orissa, being burned, looted and raped is NOT getting the attention of the government, at least not in the way it needs..! Is the government partial? Has it vested interests in helping the Hindu populations, but not the Christians, especially when so many of them are of the lower castes?

It was in 1999 that Orissa was in the news when Australian Graham Staines and his two small boys were burnt alive. His crime? Graham was a Christian who dared to help and bless the people afflicted with Hanson´s disease, to provide for them in every way he could, moreover telling them that God, the Creator, loved them and sent his Son to die for the sin of the world. Graham was greatly loved for all he and his wife, Gladys, did and said. The perpetrators of the heinous crime were eventually searched out, arrested and locked up. May God have mercy on them.

Graham was Australian… What action would have been taken had he been an Indian Christian? Would any action have been taken?
Madam/Sir, we must assure you that to God and to us, your own Indian Christians, victims of the same mob violence, are certainly no less precious and worthy than Graham Staines and his small boys.

May we submit that the last dreadful rampage, the one of December 2007, in which Orissa Christians lost their lives, and many others lost everything they had, has never been properly addressed by the authorities.
The majority of those Christians, whose homes (730 of them) and churches (95) were burned down, are still homeless.

On top of that we now have the indescribable happenings of the last few weeks. Here are two of the many reported atrocities:
“A pastor was asked to become a Hindu; when he refused and declared his faith in Christ, his two hands were chopped off. He was then given a second chance to deny his Lord. He refused again and both his legs were cut off. His body was then thrown into the fire!”
“One Mr. Naik was surrounded by the mob and told to become a Hindu or his mother would be killed. Seeing his mother in their hands, Mr. Naik renounced his faith. Then it was the turn of his wife: Mrs. Kamalini Naik, who was seven months pregnant and holding their little boy. Ordered to become a Hindu, her faith in Christ never wavered… Then and there, in front of her husband and the other Christians, she was cut to pieces..; not only she, but also the 18 months old child.”

Thousands of Christians, having lost everything, fled for their lives to the forests: men, women, children, babies, elderly folk, an estimated 50.000.
THE HINDU tells of a trickle that, forced out by hunger and thirst, is now coming out of hiding. They are not able to go back to their own villages and towns, where all was lost, and so, slowly and painfully, they are making their way to Bhubaneswar, hoping to find a way to survive. (http://www.hindu.com/2008/08/31/stories/2008083154660600.htm)

May we ask respectfully, is the Indian government responding? WHAT is being done to address the desperate situation; especially since the Maoists have stated unequivocally that the assassinations of Laxmanananda Saraswati and companions, which ignited the fire storm against the Christians, were their responsibility and theirs alone?
Is a resolute plan in place to stop the murderous mobs in their tracks? Are there effective efforts now by the government to reach the many thousands of refugees, to shelter them, to feed them, and to give them the health-care so desperately needed? Our prayers are with you for the best solutions that will be God-honouring.

Christians are very fallible and have made many mistakes, but here are some infallible words of the Saviour, spoken to his disciples after his resurrection from the dead: “Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day, and that repentance and remission (forgiveness!) of sins should be preached in his name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And you are witnesses of these things.” (Gospel of Luke, chapter 24)
He forgave our sin (!), then gave us this mandate. How can we not obey him? The forgiveness which He ´bought´ at the price of his very blood, is available for all who now have blood on their hands, also in India. And not only forgiveness, but lives transformed by his love.

Sincerely yours,

Juan Valladares.

balu said...

Dear Karan Thapar


My response to your article word by word and para by para
A response of a kind different than most others posted on your site

"Does the VHP have the right to speak for you or I?"

Definitely not for you, even if I am to assume that you are a Hindu, may be accidentally by birth, as was claimed by our first Prime Minister.


"Do they reflect our views? Do we endorse their behaviour? They call themselves the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, but who says they represent all of us?"

I agree. They definitely do not represent people like you and your journalist - intellectual crowd like Vir Sanhgvi, Rajdeep Sardesai, Sagarika Ghose and Barkha Dutt, nor the activists of the kind of Teesta Setalvaad, or the politicians like the Lalus and the Mulayams.


"This Sunday morning, I want to draw a clear line of distinction between them and everyone else. My hunch is many of you will agree."

Now where did you get the right for doing that? Did we give you the right? How did you imagine that even if we do not agree with VHP, we will agree with you?


"Let me start with the question of conversion - an issue that greatly exercises the VHP"

and, for your information, it also greatly exercised a certain Mr. Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi who had this to say "proselytizing under the cloak of humanitarian work is unhealthy, to say the least" and "If I had the power and could legislate, I should stop all proselytising.... it is the deadliest poison that ever sapped the fountain of truth."


"I imagine there are hundreds of millions of Hindus who are peaceful, tolerant, devoted to their faith, but above all, happy to live alongside Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists, Jains and Jews."

Smart move - lump all the non-Hindu religions together. Please leave the Sikh, Buddhist, Jains and Jews alone - they do not belong to the faiths you seem to represent- the "peaceful, tolerant, devoted to their faith" Muslims and Christians.

And "happy to live alongside"?

Yes, we did live happily alongside for the 700 years of Muslim rule. Only we lost maybe just a 100 million Hindus and had to accept, Jizya tax and put up to few atrocities such as having our daughters and sisters raped, our temples vandalized and razed and our properties taken away, but mostly we were happy to live like a second or third class citizen - we sure lived alongside.

Are you also representing the Hindus of Pakistan and Bangladesh, in your hundreds of millions? May be they don"t count since they are not Indians. Should I, say, include Hindus of Jammu and Kashmir or do Hindu minorities matter like their Islamic and Christian brethren?

And what about the 200 years of British rule, which Will Durant described as the most sordid and criminal exploitation of one nation by another in all recorded history.

Let me remind you what Lord Curzon, the late Viceroy of India, had said about India, "Powerful Empires existed and flourished here while Englishmen were still wandering painted in the woods, and while the British Colonies were a wilderness and a jungle. India has left a deeper mark upon the history, the philosophy, and the religion of mankind, than any other terrestrial unit in the universe."

And when the British left after a successful "loot" of over a trillion dollar (in today"s value) that funded the British Industrial revolution, India was transformed from a producer of about 25 percent of world GDP in 1750, to only 2 percent in 1900. Those 200 years of "benevolent" Christian British rule, left India with 20 million famine-related deaths, a literacy rate of 11% (1947) and a life expectancy of 25yrs (1921).

Sure some people did happily live alongside at that time and some still do praise the Christian British for "civilizing" us.

How about Goa under Inquisition from the Portuguese Church- requested by the venerated St. Francis Xavier himself, an unmatched saga of mayhem for over two centuries that outlasted even the inquisition in Europe and left less than 20,000 adherents to the their Pre-Christian faith from an original 250,000.


"If any one of us were to change our faith how does it affect the next man or woman? "

Now let"s start to look at some opinions of a few famous people about Christianity and Conversions.

Let me start with Swami Vivekananda. I hope he passes your scrutiny as an original Hindu of a Non- VHP kind. He was sent to represent Hindu Dharma to Chicago over a century ago - thankfully he had no secular media to face. And these are his words, "They come to my country and abuse my forefathers, my religion, and everything; they walk near a temple and say "you idolaters, you will go to hell" ... "If all India stands up, and takes all the mud that is at the bottom of the Indian Ocean and throws it up against the Western countries, it will not be doing an infinitesimal part of that which you are doing to us."

How about some westerner"s comment? Thomas Jefferson, the former US President, had mentioned, "Millions of innocent men, women and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced an inch towards uniformity. ...were the Pope, or his allies, to send in mission to us some thousands of Jesuit priests to convert us to their orthodoxy, I suspect that we should deem and treat it as a national aggression on our peace and faith."

This is what Pitrim Sorokin, a Harvard sociologist had said, "During the past few centuries the most belligerent, the most aggressive, the most rapacious, the most power-drunk section of humanity has been precisely, the Christian Western world..During these centuries western Christendom had invaded all other continents; its armies followed by priests and merchants have subjugated, robbed or pillaged most of the non-Christians. Native Americans, African, Australian, Asiatic populations have been subjugated to this peculiar brand of Christian "love" which has generally manifested itself in pitiless destruction, enslavement, coercion, destruction of the cultural values, institutions, the way of life of the victims and the spread of alcoholism, venereal disease, commercial cynicism and the like."

And this is what thy holy Pope John Paul II, in 1999, on his visit to India said, "Just as in the first millennium, the Cross was planted on the soil of Europe, and in the second on that of the Americas and Africa, we can pray that in the third Christian millennium a great harvest of faith will be reaped in this vast and vital continent (of Asia)."

I could expand or should l trust your journalistic curiosity to do some search yourself?

In case you still do not get the message - it is about preservation of dharma, of righteousness, of choosing between good and evil, of standing against atrocities, of pride and self-esteem, of patriotism and liberty.


"And even if that happens with inducements, it can only prove that the forsaken faith" Do you mean "Hinduism? Did your mask slip for a moment? "had a tenuous and shallow hold." (on people of your stripe). "So why do the VHP and its unruly storm troopers, the Bajrang Dal, froth at the mouth if you, I or our neighbours convert? What is it to do with them? Let me put it bluntly, even crudely. If I want to sell my soul - and trade in my present gods for a new lot - why shouldn"t I? "

Sure you can sell your soul and you proved it well. But let me reinforce the basics, never taught or learnt by you.

The reason is the concept of Bhartvarsha, the land later named as India, and her over 8000 yrs old Civilization, called the Indus - Saraswati Civilization. It is the purity of Bharat"s religion and culture and the tradition of her indigenous people who later came to be labeled as "Hindus" by foreigners. People of different faiths, languages and customs, lived and survived in this civilization. Jews and Parsis got their shelter after been persecuted everywhere. Tribes and sects lived happily in remote places without fear of their identity being trampled. And that was all because the "forsaken faith" of Hinduism did not preach proselytizing.

India is not a Muslim or Christian country even after 900 years of invasion, torture and annihilation because of the Hindus. You may not agree but there are many who do agree with what Annie Besant had to say, "After a study of some forty years and more of the great religions of the world, I find none so perfect, none so scientific, none so philosophical and none so spiritual than the great religion known by the name of Hinduism. Make no mistake, without Hinduism, India has no future...And if Hindus do not maintain Hinduism who shall save it? If India"s own children do not cling to her faith, who shall guard it? India alone can save India and India and Hinduism are one.

So if by this time you do not understand, Mr. Thapar, let me tell you once more clearly that the true Hindus, who have not sold their souls and who do not trade their gods, feel that the existence of Bharatvarsha and her Spiritual soul is threatened.

It is the only country in the world where the majority of the population are actually fighting for their right to live peacefully without being terrorized, to safeguard their culture and tradition, to prevent their history from being wiped out, to save their temples from being taken over, to defend their faiths in their religious deities and icons, to save their saints from being humiliated and murdered, to preserve their heritage from being destroyed, to pray to their own God of faith and to visit their own pilgrim sites, in their own country and with their own money.

Their unity is deliberately being divided. Their elected government and politicians are deaf to their needs. Taxes paid by them are openly and specifically allocated for the prosperity and development of their adversaries. Their newspaper and television media, by and large, ridicule them and identify with foreign faiths with foreign masters. Atrocities committed on them are not even reportable or "narrated objectively" whereas a mere allegation against them is good for headline news and warrants unqualified condemnation, without investigation or verification.

There is no body that they can trust. They have no spokesmen, no Government to ensure their welfare, no media to express their anguish, no academic to pen their chronicle no TV channels to air their views.

They have their backs to the wall.

Their country has already been broken down to pieces - they cannot allow any further fragmentation.

They have realized that they have to fight back.

And that is what has started to happen - if you can put your ears to the ground - be it in Orissa or Jammu, you can hear the reverberations.


"Even if the act diminishes me in your eyes, it"s my right to do so. So if thousands or even millions of Dalits, who have been despised and ostracized for generations, choose to become Christian, Buddhist or Muslim, either to escape the discrimination of their Hindu faith or because some other has lured them with food and cash, it"s their right. "

I was sure waiting for this topic to surface.

Have you ever heard of Dalit Christian Mr. Thapar? A little enquiry on your part will tell you that the Dalit Christians, who account for over 70% of the 25 million Christians in India, have been largely converted by exploitation, coercion and the false hopes of egalitarian status but still suffer from the segregation, oppression and discrimination, only now at the hands of their fellow Christians of the upper castes. Conversion into the new faith has not redeemed them from the stigma of "untouchablity". A Dalit Christian has minimal say in the leadership and control, has minimal access to education (despite a wide network of Christian missionary schools and colleges), job opportunities and entrepreneurship development. Even in the local church communities, controlled by Christians of the "upper castes", Dalit Christians often have separate entries, separate place to sit, separate cups at the Eucharistic celebration, separate communion rails, and even separate cemeteries. The Christian leaders have even started to demand separate reservation for them. St. Stephens college in Delhi is already reserving seats for them in the college. Thus ends the Christian promise of equality, human dignity and egalitarian status through conversion.

Have you ever criticized the Christian organizations why the converts are called Dalit christians and not just christians and why they are still discriminated and "ostracized"?

You are fully aware that caste discrimination is a degenerated, socio-political evil manifestation of an ancient vocational order according to mental inclinations and unrelated to birth right. You also know this has been declared illegal in modern India. India had a President, a deputy Prime Minister, a Chief Justice, and currently has the Chief Minister of its largest state belonging to the lower caste. India is also the only country that has had religious minorities as its head of state not once but repeatedly, after its modern birth. But give me an honest answer. Who do you think perpetuates this social evil any more than our politicians and our media? So why is it that this ill politics of contemporary Indian society, of its lawlessness, exploitations and dominations, conveniently blamed primarily on Hindu religion?

Have you ever demonized the "faith of Christianity" for its Crusades, Inquisitions, anti Semitisms, witch burnings, black slaveries and the destructions of Mayans, Incas and Australian aboriginal civilizations, the African and Asian Colonization, besides the two world wars.

As a leading media personality, what have you or your clan done to eradicate this system, other than parroting the same politicians and laying the blame on Hindu Dharma that ensured a just state for thousands of years, with no caste problem, until the British landed on its soil?

And how does that justify Christian proselytizing and domination over the lower castes and tribes of the Indian populace?

At least bring a modicum of integrity to your profession, Mr. Thapar. Can you, for once, clear the web of lies, half-truths and disinformation that clouds your thoughts and write a "truthful" article on any of the topics like Joshua project, the 10/40 window, the Project Thessalonica, the Maranatha Volunteers, etc.


"Arguably you may believe you should ask them to reconsider, although I would call that interference"( so conversion, by hook or by crook is okay but asking to reconsider is "interference",) "but you certainly have no duty or right to stop them. In fact, I doubt if you are morally correct in even seeking to place obstacles in their way. The so-called Freedom of Religion Acts, which aim to do just that, are, in fact, tantamount to obstruction of conversion laws and therefore, at the very least, questionable."

So, the law of the nation is now incompatible with your Christian sympathy. How patriotic? Can you tell me why the church leaders including the holy one at Vatican, while saying that they do not indulge in forced conversions, are so worked up and demand the revocation of the law?


"However, what"s even worse is how the VHP responds to this matter. Periodically they resort to violence including outright murder"

So when an octogenarian VHP leader and his associates are killed brutally by mercenaries, it is not really violence or murder. It was the evangelist way of giving the message of their only God to a "heathen" idolator. It is okay to do so because they are subhuman Hindus of the VHP kind.

"What happened to Graham Staines in Orissa was not unique"

I am sure you know very well that it had nothing to do with VHP or Bajrang Dal, but you had to make your "anti VHP case". If you honestly do not know, I request that you consider an alternative profession.


Keeping in mind your selective amnesia and incompetence, I seriously doubt whether you remember the unique, sister Abhaya "suicide" case, who was "blessed" by the father in the Kottayam convent. It is been reported that a former Congress Prime Minister had tried hushing up the case and that the High court, had reprimanded the CBI for tampering with some relevant CDs. The case remains undecided for 16yrs.

Funny, no body called this a failure of the "Hindu" judicial system.


"Last week it happened again. Apart from the utter and contemptible criminality of such behavior, is this how we Hindus wish to behave? Is this how we want our faith defended? Is this how we want to be seen? I have no doubt the answer is no. An unequivocal, unchanging and ever-lasting NO!"

Depends on what kind of Hindu you represent.

In case you do not know, protest and violence is a natural instinct of all life forms, especially to defend the integrity of their being. Surely, you cannot be dreaming of depriving Hindus of their right to self defense. Though the world likes to believe and promote the "Gandhi" image of Hindus, there are other icons of Hindus - starting from the "mythological" Ram and Krishna to the Shivaji and Rana Pratap and the Subhas Bose and Bhagat Singh.

"The only problem is it can"t be heard. And it needs to be. I therefore believe the time has come for the silent majority of Hindus - both those who ardently practice their faith as well as those who were born into it but may not be overtly religious or devout - to speak out." (They are speaking out - listen to the people of Jammu ,Orissa and Gujarat). We cannot accept the desecration of churches, the burning to death of innocent caretakers of orphanages, the storming of Christian and Muslim hamlets even if these acts are allegedly done in defense of our faith."

But we should gladly accept the desecration of our temples, the Christian - Marxist mercenaries killing our Hindu monks and the Islamic terrorist bombing our hospitals.

We should accept the diversion of temple funds for churches and mosques, and the subsidy from the Hindu majority"s money to visit pilgrimages to Mecca and Jerusalem.

We should also accept the largest state subsidy to those secessionists of Kashmir, who howl anti-India slogans and hoist Pakistani flag, and yet successfully clamor to disallow the temporary use of a mere 40 hectares of land for the Hindus, on way to a pilgrimage in their own country.

We need to assure them that Hindus will take it lying down.

Why don"t you show us the way, Mr. Thapar?

Why don"t you announce Mr. Thapar, that the next time a Christian or Muslim wants to kill some Hindu that you choose to be the sacrificial cow; if they want to rape somebody they can pick her up from your family; and if they want to practice the art of "suicide bombing" they can go to your office address?)

"Indeed, they do not defend but shame Hinduism. That"s my central point. I"m sorry but when I read that the VHP has ransacked and killed I"m not just embarrassed, I feel ashamed. Never of being hindu but of what some Hindus do in our shared faith"s name."


You already expressed a solution - sell your soul and trade your god. ( If you have not already do so bynow that is ) Have you considered the possibility that the majority of one billion Hindus may be embarrassed by people like you or actually consider the VHP inadequate to meet the challenge of defending India"s honor.

"This is why it"s incumbent on Naveen Patnaik, Orissa"s Chief Minister, to take tough, unremitting action against the VHP and its junior wing, the Bajrang Dal."

What kind of action Mr. Thapar? The one you prescribed for Mr. Modi, some time ago after the foolish, rabid Hindu fanatic Gujaratis elected him again as their Chief Minister? Do you remember writing, "Only the sudden removal of Narendra Modi can stop this..."

How many Modis are you willing to stop? How do you propose to derail the progressive Gujrati in his march towards his freedom - economic and spiritual? Did you not hear the five crore voices speaking through the ballot in Gujrat or the voices in Himachal and Karnataka?

"This is a test not just of his governance, but of his character. And I know and accept this could affect his political survival. But when it"s a struggle between your commitment to your principles and your political convenience is there room for choice? For ordinary politicians, possibly, but for the Naveen I know, very definitely not. So let me end by saying: I"m waiting, Naveen. In fact, I want to say I"m not alone. There are hundreds of millions of Hindus, like you and me, waiting silently - but increasingly impatiently. Please act for all of us."

It is said that during the British rule there was never more than 20-30 thousand British national in India at any one particular time. The British managed to rule for 190 years with the help of the "brown sahibs" who, as Thomas Macaulay defined, are a class who may be interpreters between us and the millions whom we govern, a class of persons Indian in blood and colour, but English in taste, in opinions, words and intellect.

Today how much we wish that the British had taken their pet brown sahibs along with them.

Max Muller, more than a century ago, while translating the Vedas, had wished that his translation "will tell to a great extent... the fate of India, and on the growth of millions of souls in that country. It is the root of their religion, and to show them what the root is, I feel sure, the only way of uprooting all that has sprung from it during the last 3000 years."

If he was alive today, Mr. Muller could have been a very happy man to know you Mr. Thapar.

May Jesus and Allah together bless you, since you have chosen to forsake, the shallow faith of your forefathers.

We pray that may each member of the billion strong community, that you have chosen to misrepresent and misguide, find you and your ilk, worthy of pardon.

May India once again rise to forgive her own treacherous brood?

jayadevan said...

I really love this. So the various wrongs being perpetrated by all Christians/Muslims/Jews or people of whatever creed or race justifies the VHP?

The wolf said to the lamb, " If you didn't muddy the water, it must have been your father."

A wrong is a wrong is a wrong. There is nothing defensive in murdering a non-combatant, be it by dumping a cluster bomb from high upon, or by cannonading a city, or by disemboweling a pregnant woman. I see too many defenders of the faith over the centuries bringing out the worst in the human psyche on one pretext or the other. The worst crime they perpetrate is not seen in the famous photos of the children dead in Nellie. It is the willing acquiescence of the people who find justification in the words of their leaders. Whether they call Them Katua or Kaffir or Jude/Untermensch or Heathen or Heretic or Cockroach is immaterial. It brands them as different and anything that you would be loath to do to a stray dog is perfectly justifiable because they are not one of Us. 6 million Jews and an almost equal number of communists/gypsies/homosexuals could not have been industrially processed without the willing co-operation or at least lack of opposition from entire populaces. I never heard of the Jews deciding to teach the Germans a lesson. It could be that they are cowards. Or it could be that the people who do believe in the idea of an eye for and eye, which the late unlamented Gandhi reasoned out with his moneylender's brains would leave the entire world blind, are the real cowards.

A terrorist/freedom fighter/jihadi/ sets off a bomb in a crowded marketpalce and says, "This pays you off for ---." Fill in the blanks yourself. People are herded out of their houses in Kashmir/Palestine/Bosnia/ South Africa because they are different. People with access to better weapons and uniforms rain death on a larger target. The poorer people in Africa or India maim and rape and kill, greatly limited by their lack of resources. And their great leaders talk of their highly respected cultures and the wrongs done unto them which can be wiped out by killing that poor street hawker or that author/artist.

Why don't you leave the poor people to find their own misbegotten peace with their maker? If a poor tribal in India is converted to Christianity or Islam and gets some cash for it, how is he at a loss? If you want him back, pay him some more, so in the competition between all these hawkers of soul detergents, the poor consumer benefits. After all it is his own money which is going back to him.

And before being so het up with the iniquities of other religions, why don't the imams and acharyas and padres do a very small thing? Conduct a census of the whores in Kamatipura and see 1. whether their respective religions or communities have proper representation there 2. whether they can do something to bring them into their fold. Maybe a fatwa against the pimps and purveyors could be of some help. The comrades could try to unionize them.

It is very easy for the great people who know so much to keep us ignorant folk apart so we do not ask them the real questions. Why is my baby not assured of survival? Why don't I have a job? Why don't I have drinking water? Why?

Karan Thapar talks about the VHP because he is a Hindu. But the truth is the same everywhere. Since time immemorial, the priest / commissar and the king have always preyed upon the people, promising to protect us from evil. And we have let them fatten off us like a Bakasura, sacrificing the neighbour's child in the hope that our turn will never come. Unless we wake up, we will be puppets in their hands.

And see where we have come. The major religions in India are Hinduism and Islam. In the heydays of Hinduism, people came to India to learn. Kings from far off lands used to request that scholars be sent to their courts. Our mathematical concepts were carried by the Arabs to Europe to become universal. Islam established the largest university in the world. An illiterate Muslim built the GT Road. Another illiterate Muslim had a court that reminded us of Vikramaditya's. And if it had not been for the illiterate Crusaders carrying back the marvels of the East, the Renaissance would have never come to be, leaving Europe to rot in the darkness of the middle ages. And where are the Hindus and Muslims now? Illiterate, poor, beset by all sorts of evils, social and economical. And what are the saviours of our souls doing?

It is all the fault of the Muslim invaders/ the British / the American infidels / the Kaffirs/ --. Agreed. But we could try to do something, couldn't we. To tear down a mosque / to ban a book / to vandalize a temple of learning, we have been able to mobilize men and resources and zeal. One clean street? One public latrine? One school for slum children? One nutritious meal a day for the kids? Nothing revolutionary.. your rich patrons will not object to this. The Politburo might, but we can make compromises, for a short time.We might even go back to the glorious days of the past. Once we have something worth fighting over, we could go back to our old agenda.

Rajesh said...

Mr.Karan Thapar.....Please SPEAK for YOURSELF...What gives you the right to speak for us Hindus ? Most Hindus do not think like you & that is why they support the Parivar. YOU are certainly not a REAL HINDU.....I don't think you even know your religion....you are like all politicians ......pseudo secular !!!!! With friends like you, who needs enemies ??

Deepak said...

Dear Mr.Thaper ,
Let me point out onething ...
Nowhere you can point out that Hindus started problems all on a sudden .
No Swamy Lakshmananada Saraswathy Murder ...No Kandhamal Reactions..
No Hindu God baiting notices ...No Karnataka Reactions ..
Please try to stop forcible Conversions for Christ's sake .
Hindus rank and file feels that they are treated as secondary citizens eventhough they are Majority .
Is it a sin to be a hindu in hindustan ..?

If a minute provocation of any type what soever is known to be
levelled against Hindus in any part of the World
in any point of time in future by anybody, any organisation,
any ideology,any govt., any community,any religious sect ,
More Disastrous and far reaching Consequences
will have to be faced by those Perpitrators.

Please remember not to arouse the Sleeping Lions - The Hindus .

Anonymous said...

no wonder Karan has this stand ..he is working for his company owned by Gospel ( ref http://www.scribd.com/doc/937050/Who-Owns-the-Media-in-India )

Anonymous said...

I don't understand the behaviour of VHP or Bajrang Dal. But there's something else that I don not understand either..

Why are christian missionaries so aggressive about conversion? Why can't they allow a Hindu to be a Hindu.

I'm saying this because I've myself gone through the ordeal on a much smaller scale.

I'm not too religious and kind of liked exploring other faiths.
Right from attending a jain pathsala for an year to going to a born again christian church in college.

Everything was cool till one fine sunday I was lectured on how Bible was the only holy book.. the word of god...
and I should listen to him. I was surprised but I said that I do respect their views but I'm happy being a Hindu.
I thought that I had put the topic to rest till I came to church the next sunday...
The person who had lectured me then came with another guy and to my horror it started again...
It was as if, there was some kind of hierarchy in place, If I didn't budge the next person in the hierarchy would approach me.

If this can happen to me in a posh suburb of Mumbai... I wonder what happens in places like Orissa.

I totally support the idea that a person should have the right to choose his/her religion or to be an aethist.
But is that synonimous with aggressive conversion practised in India?

I appreciate the work that missionaries have done in the field of healthcare and education.
But shouldn't it be just that without the conversion factor hanging on your head...
Even if they wish to spread the message of Jesus, should that be accompanied with making fun of hindu gods?

I think VHP and Bajrang Dal should concentrate on eliminating castism and making Hindu festivals more eco-friendly.
And intellectual hindus should look at the ground realities and work towards rectifying the conversion mechanism in India.

Anonymous said...

Why cant we register complaint on the Missionaries for practicing conversion which is root of all evil between religions?

All these troubles started from Conversions. Hence they are responsible for this.

Senthil

Anonymous said...

The hue and cry raised by the Hindus here is appalling for the simple fact that they don't condemn the violence, instead choosing to justify it. Let them work on their issues like child marriage, casteism, untouchability b4 pointing fingers at other religions. They wont dare tear the Koran like they did the Bible in churches that were vandalized, cus they know India would burn. They take advantage of ppl who are peace loving.With fanatics such as these, where is India going to prosper? Terrorists targeting the country at large, the VHP and Sangh Parivar brutalizing the minorities...wow!! Im so proud of my country. We still havent eradicated poverty, no sire no..tat doesn't matter, as long as we build temples, raze churches and mosques ...I live in a nation of fanatics and as such I'm ashamed to be called an Indian. I won't return to this blog anymore cus I see no hope. I'm disgusted.

Anonymous said...

All the rabidly religious people here (of whichever religion): There seems to be this assumption among you that people need to be told what to do, what to believe in. To, one of the previous posters: if a missionary is convinced of the benefits of his faith, he has every right to try to spread its message. And, the person he's trying to convert has every right to reject it - on whatever grounds. I think indivuduals can decide what they want to believe in FOR THEMSELVES. Also, the pro-Hindu brigade here seems bent on trumpeting the "great" aspects of Hinduism. It's a beautiful religion, no doubt. What's funny, though, is that you seem to think it's under attack. Religious beliefs will continue to exist even if they have no followers. The VHP and other parties seem to have taken it upon themselves to "save" Hinduism. Why insult your own religion by assuming it needs to be saved? Aren't its merits enough to bring in the believers?

Oh this debate is so pointless. All these problems seem to spring from the "I know what's good, and if you don't agree with me, I will make your life hell" mentality that becoming increasinyl prevalent. God (whichever religion he belongs to) help us all.

Anonymous said...

any way i have decided to obtain a visa and get to Europe as a Hindu missionary and try to help the sinners there by taking them to the fold of Shiva..i will also ask all the swamis and gurus who teach yoga to come back, as why are they giving good health to the people of Europe and America when they consider us as people with no intelligence as we do not believe in the 'real Saviour' Jesus Christ.Jesus save us hindus, buddhists, jains, shintos, parsis, taos, sikhs, and all others who already formed a religion and wrote wonderful scientific texts like the Gita and developed scientific techniques like Yoga, meditation etc. when all of Israel where Jesus was born was illiterate(including him)..Save us..O illiterate man, save us literate..

MR said...

Karan Thapar talks about the VHP because he is a Hindu.

Not that it matters, but are you sure he's Hindu? I always thought he was a Christian seeing his comments on ChristianToday.com.

Jack Stone said...

All these problem seems intrested.